| Author |
Message |
joshua states
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 5:33 pm: | |
I am having trouble getting my single burner propane forge hot enough.I built it from plans I downloaded through this website, it is single burner, 3/4" pipe with .030 mig tip nozzle as the plans showed. I can get metal (say 1/2" rod or 3/8" plate) to a bright orange heat but no hotter. This latest issue of Hammer's Blow has an article on basic techniques (exactly what I need) which says to get the metal to yellow-white.
Also, the refractory brick in the base of the forge shows a prominent red ring with a colder center. I operate the forge between 5 and 10 psi.
What am I doing wrong?
js |
gschwend
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 8:46 pm: | |
My neighbor and I are both members and have similar forges. His has a blower added. We have discussed the idea of forge welding and have played at welding and have concluded that it is not worth the effort to forge weld. The blower does appear to obtain a higher burner temperature, but as I recall reading several postings that suggest propane forges can barely reach welding temperature. Here is a simple test we have tried. Place a smaller filler rod into the hot forge. You can move it around and look for a place where you can melt the rod. We think that melting the rod shows that there is enough heat to weld. His blower burner can melt the filler rod.
As a last point, you may not be doing anything wrong. There are web sites/posting talking about tuning burners and also providing enough air opening, you need something like 10 square inches of opening.
My guess is the burner creates a flame that is distorted. Ask yourself is the burner flame well defined? As well defined as a welding torch? The distortion may result in loss of heat. |
Helmut Hillenkamp
| | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 10:20 am: | |
I have encountered similar problems many times when building atmospheric gas forges. You can try varying the pressure. I run mine at full tank pressure to obtain welding heat (more than 100psi). A black spot on the floor indicates a cold place and means that the flame is longer than the height of the fire chamber. Try varying the amount of air or gas in the mixture, play with different orifice sizes, try reducing the air flow by holding your hand over the air intake, and watch what happens. It takes that kind of experimenting, but you should be able to get up to welding heat in a properly insulated forge.
I have gas forge plans up at my website www.iron-to-live-with.com, if you want to compare notes. |
Steve Gschwend (Gschwend)
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 8:44 pm: | |
This is my second posting on this subject. My earlier posting contrasted my normally aspirated gas forge to my neighbor’s with a blower. His forge definitely runs hotter; the welding rod test showed his forge could easily melt the welding rod. A few days ago on our way from the welding store we stopped at the used shop at which I found a two-speed blower. I am mounting the blower above my choke (I did not need to use an air duct). I can now obtain welding temperature, and in fact I welded a piece of 3/8 rebar onto itself. Afterwards I ground down the weld zones and found that the metal was continuous (with no hairline cracks present). |
Steve Gschwend (Gschwend)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 10:00 pm: | |
In recent burner designed discussions folks have been suggesting that installation a coke on the air intake side of the burner. What I learned (I believe I did not quite understand what I read) is that the coke mainly adjusts the mixture and the blower provides air velocity. It has been pointed out that a choke and blower add complexity, but in my view it is well worth it because it is so much easier it is to setup of the burner to economically produce the higher temperatures you want to use not only to weld but also to easily work the metal. |
Andrew G. Hagemann (Drew77)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:36 pm: | |
For more information on building a propane-fired forge, go to Ron Reil's web site. http://www.reil1.net/
His burner design is great. I've built one and use it in my propane-fired crucible furnace. I attached a scrap mainframe computer cooling fan to the burner. After experimenting with a sliding cover over the fan's intake, I discoveded that if I close off about 2/3 of the opening and feed propane at 23 psi to the burner I can generate enough heat to melt 10 pounds of aluminum in about ten minutes. I suspect that if I increased the propane to 25 or 28 psi, I and opened the intake accordingly, I could generate a forge-welding heat in the furnace.
When I'm blacksmithing, I use my coal-fired forge. Back when I started smithing in the 1970's I bought a cast iron firepot from Centaur Forge and set it into an old Buffalo Forge forge body. Although the contour of the Buffalo Forge's cruved body and the straight-lipped firepot don't really mate, I've been using this jury-rig ever since. The cast iron has cracked a bit, but its still servicable.
I prefer a coal-fired forge, even if it is sometimes a chore to find good coal. However, I can see why folks use propane. It is easier to buy and it isn't messy. Once you get your air / gas ratio set, you're good to go.
Let me know what you decide to do. |
horatio154
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 9:42 pm: | |
I dont know if you guys are still out there, but I have to add something to this. I used to have a dinky little stacks of firebrick for a forge, and I got it up to light-orange temp, and I forge welded with it. I dont know what you're doing wrong, but it's not the temp. yellow-white is WAY too hot. You could get some kind of UV radiation from it (at least thats what I've heard). Bright orange to low yellow is perfect for forge welding, Iv done it myself and it works. |
Twinfore
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 3:59 pm: | |
I am trying to build a gas forge and I am trying to figure out how many burners to put in to it. is there a formula for this? |
Steve Gschwend (Gschwend)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 6:13 pm: | |
There is a lot of good information on propane forges here and other places. You need to get the most heat out of the burners that you use. It is far better to have one hot burner than two cold ones. You can make metal look hot with just a burner, but to obtain welding temperatures you need a blown burner. I belive (my opinion) that a choke reduces the amount of scale developed with the blown burner. Read up on these ideas and build one. |
Ken Scharabok
| | Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 6:36 am: | |
My first suspicion would be the forge isn't being operated at a high enough psi. I have seen propane forges equipped with a 0-15 psi regulator. IMHO that is about like putting a governor on a sports car. 0-60 psi regulators are readily available.
Second observation would be atmospheric propane forges seem to function somewhat differently even based on the same plans. A critical aspect seems to be the gas jetted right into the center of the pipe. If it reflects off the side of the pipe it seems to affect performance.
Third observation is it takes about 20 or so minutes of use for an atmospheric propane forge to come up to optimal working temperature. |
Michael Bridges
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 12:09 pm: | |
If you would save yourself time,trouble and EXTREME frustation, as in "forget this,it just does not work" feeling, take a basic blacksmithing class. I have experimented with a LOT of different burner and forge designs that worked pretty good but just did not get the results I want and need. So taking my own advice I am enrolling in such a course in southern Missouri this spring. So in closing I would like to say "Safety first!" learn from a qualified instructor! |
Ken Scharabok
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 4:49 pm: | |
Michael: What course are you taking and where? |
Michael Bridges
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 9:58 pm: | |
http://www.ozarkschool.com
This place is south of ST.Louis and from their website it looks like just what I need. |
Tim Cisneros
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 8:21 am: | |
I built a small forge many years ago and was never able to get to welding heat. The problem was that I used refractory (similar to cement but used in furnaces). When I changed to KaowooL (including bottom) It easily gets to welding heat.Hope this helps. Regards, Tim Cisneros
The Forgeworks
450 W.Atlantic
Alameda, Ca. 94501
www.theforgeworks.com
blacksmith@rcn.com
shop: 510 814 0559 |
Bruce new to trade
| | Posted on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 12:55 pm: | |
Helmut Hillenkamp, OMG man! That is Some incredible work you have posted on your site!
You have reached into my dreams and taken my thoughts. VERY nice work!
A quick question about that sort of work though, Does that line of blacksmithing pay off? Is one capable of makeing money in that line? Or would it be safe to say most artist Blacksmiths are in it just to create this type of art. |
mike krantz
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 8:11 pm: | |
i
built a blower type burner for my propane forge.i am using a 2" pipe with a cap that has holes 1/16" drilled in it,about 24.ican get the burner going pretty well but i am having trouble keeping the flame steady.i am running @ about 10psi.any ideas how to solve this |
joshua (Djmascus)
New member
Username: Djmascus
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 9:14 am: | |
actually your forge design is probably fine but you need a blower and also the correct way to insulate it inorder to get welding, I have 4 now that I have built each a different design, the last one gets white hot no joking this homemade forge is quite hardcore when it comes to forge welding, I found that the trick is to actually get your burner's flame to blow the flames into an uneven surface of (inswool)with " ash ember" which is just high temp fiber insulation used in natural gas fireplaces to look like glowing ash embers, you can find it at homebase, I will send pics if anyone is interested, I took a 6" cylinder roughly 2 feet long and lined it with inswool, and then put the fiber embers all through the cylinder leaving a semi straight passage for the fire to pass through the front of the forge is a 4" hole and the back where the burner is it is only 2" inlet, the fiber insulation " glowing embers " disables the flame from flowing straight throgh and makes it bounce off the walls causing the burning oxygenated gas to get into the insulation causing it to light up like a white light ( USE YOUR WELDING GOGGLES ) when you accomplish this correctly EVERYTHING will be glowing white hot in roughly 40 seconds, once your falme has everything lit up like a light bulb you can re-adjust your propane to suit the fire you want because the glowing fibers will egnite even a light ammount of fuel with a LOT of air, make sure NOT to lean it out too much, it will not do nearly as good as having it just a tiny bit rich, USE A BLOWER THOUGH, it will help you to regulate your oxygen and make it so you dont get the sputtering and irregular uncontrollable flame it is MUCH MUCH easier to run a propane forge with a blower without a blower what usually happens is when the forge starts getting red hot the oxygen that is supposed to be making it hotter isnt being pulled in because the heat is expanding outword and slowing the burner's air flow choking it down which never allows proper Temp, proper torch placement is important, make sure propane and air can flow in and out, but attempt to redirrect the flame by using the fiber embers and at the front try to keep asmuch of the flame inside the cylinder without causing it to go out, another good reason for induced air flow. email me if you ever want pics of mine running and my forge plans, maby you guys will think up a better way, thats how I made these, I started out with a really lame forge, and worked out the bugs as I went on building them, 5 years later I think I have the forge down atleast I hope I do. good luck all |
dick lyon (Prepking45)
New member
Username: Prepking45
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:16 am: | |
Look at this site http://www.uscylinderdisposal.com |
Ken Scharabok (Ken_scharabok)
New member
Username: Ken_scharabok
Post Number: 78
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 9:06 am: | |
The small propane cylinders are fairly easy to vent out. When the propane becomes too low to be effective simply put it somewhere, such as on the middle of a concrete floor, and then allow it to fully burn out. Once flame goes out, leave valve open for say 24 hours. Then just use a set punch or such to put in a 3/8" - 1/2" hole in the side. .22 also works nicely.
Nothing wrong with putting one done in such a way on a driveway and driving over it to flatten it out. However, cut off just above the middle seam they can make excellent forge water dippers as the seam keeps them from falling through the handle. |
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